On Catholics and Statues
I really couldn’t say it better than Perna does, and didn’t even attempt to try when I posted this at Gamespot:
In regards to Catholics worshipping religious pictures and statues of saints — this claim has been made for hundreds of years. I still can’t believe people bring this up. [If you] think that Catholics are breaking the commandment in Exodus 20:4-5 and 32:31, right? First, it is correct to warn people about idolatry. From the early days of the apostles, the Catholic Church has boldly condemned the sin of idolatry, the early Church Fathers condemned it and so have many Church councils. Someone who calls a Catholic an idol worshipper simply because he or she has a statue of a saint or a picture of Jesus in his home, clearly is ignorant of what the Bible teaches about statues. Second, there are many scripture passages where God clearly commands that statues be made. When giving instructions on how the Ark of the Covenant was to be made, he speaks of the cherubim statues (Exodus 25:18-20). Again, David’s plan for the temple which included statues of angels (1 Chronicles 28:18-19). Also, in Ezekiel 41:17-18, the prophet speaks of the images that were to be carved in the inner room and on the nave looking like cherubim. More so, in Numbers 21:8-9, we read about when Moses was told by God to make a statue of a fiery serpent (bronze serpent) and set it on a pole so whoever looks at it would be healed (they were bitten by a plague of serpents for punishment). This passage clearly shows that the statues were not just religious decorations, but could be used within a ritual.
So why do so many faithful and practicing Catholics have statues, paintings and other religious devices in their homes or on their front porch (I imagine you saw that in Steubenville on your mission trip)? Simply: Catholics use statues and religious images to depict or recall the person. By looking at pictures of the saints or Jesus, it helps Catholics to remember that person in a more visual way. Think about this…As human beings, we come to know the world through our five senses. Having a statue or a picture amplifies us to use our sense of touch and sight more. Catholics DO NOT worship these pictures or statues. We do not bow down to them as the Greeks and Romans did with their gods. They are merely there to help us pray more and to remember more what that person was like here on earth. I have a statue of Saint Joseph, the foster father of Jesus, in my living room. I ask St. Joseph to pray for me so I can be a great role model for other men since he is such a great role model for men. Imagine his vocation, he was to care and protect Mary and Jesus! What a job! I do not worship that statue, but it helps me to remember who he was when he lived on this earth.
Let’s put it another way — do you have pictures of your family and friends either in your home, wallet, or your dorm room/apartment at school? Why do you have these pictures? Is it to remember who they are and how important they are to you?? Do you worship these “images”? Do you bow down to these “images”?
Just as you use pictures of your family members, those still alive and those who are deceased, to remember them when you are away from them, so do Catholics use the pictures and statues to remind them of our brothers and sisters in Christ who have gone before us. Catholics also use statues and religious art as tools for teaching. Throughout the history of the Church, there have been periods of illiteracy (illiterate = those who cannot read). The Church would use the religious art to often explain the Biblical stories to the faithful. In Art History, Stain Glass Windows were known as the “Bible of the Poor.” … Catholics also use statues to remember certain people and events, similar to Protestant communities who have three-dimensional nativity scenes during Christmas.
I followed this up by noting that “there’s a goodly number of liars — yes, liars, even at Gamespot — out there who will attempt to label the Catholic use of statues and icons as being an example of idolatry. Don’t buy it for a second…unless the person making the claim can demonstrably prove that he has no pictures of family or friends anywhere on his person, in his office, in his car, or in his home.
Only then is he worth listening to. For even though he is wrong, at least it cannot be said that his actions and life do not align with his message.”
Of course, having said as much, it only took about an hour for an Evangelical to happen upon the post and comment thusly:
The problem is that the statues are not a depiction of God, and we all know what Isaiah says in Verse 8 of Chapter 42: “I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.” Interestingly, this topic came up on the CWU a few days ago. [Another Gamespot user] posted this:
“How many times have I heard the line, “We don’t worship statues”! It seems that whenever one brings up the subject of idolatry with a Roman Catholic, they invariably think it is a defense that they are not venerating the statue itself, but the thing it represents. My intuitive response has typically been: do you think the pagans think that the statue is actually the god itself?
Just in case they think that, I happen to have found an interesting article that makes the following claim: P. Sivaraman, the chairman of the temple’s board of trustees, explained to the 80 [Roman] Catholics that Hindus do not worship the images — they are only there to help devotees focus their minds on an omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient God.”
To which I replied: “What would a statue of God look like? Has anyone seen Him? We do make statues of Christ; what of them?
Have you ever held a baby in your arms, Lansdowne? Ever looked at a picture of an infant niece or baby daughter? And if you have so done, have you ever begun to marvel at the wonder of God’s creation, at the wonder if His good design, at how the human form and the sparkle in the infant’s eyes bear His image and likeness down to their very last fiber?
Does this make you an idolater?
It’s much the same when we look upon a statue of Mary, or of a particular saint. We remember the person, remember their example, and in so doing remember the God for whom they lived, sacrificed, and perhaps even died in martyrdom. We reflect on the grace that infused their life, the grace that comes only from God, and so we glory in the greatness of the Lord. We do not glory in the saint proper, or in Mary herself, but in God who by His grace touched the lives of the saints, and of Mary, in a unique and example-giving way. The glory is God’s alone, just as it is God’s alone when we reflect on the majesty of His creation by looking on the face of a baby.
I trust the discussion on the CWU was a wealth of disinformation.
As to the other user’s posting, I suppose that depends on which pagans we happen to be talking about, no?
But okay, let’s take that question on its head. What’s the actual sin? That a statue is worshipped AT, or that a pagan god is worshipped? Obviously, the answer is the latter, and what makes the statue an idol rather than an icon is that it is intended to invoke a remembrance of — and then the worship of — an alien god, a pagan deity, a falsehood.
In the end, if I worship God by reflecting on the life and example of the Mother of Jesus and how her life was transformed by God’s grace, and you worship God by a different (you might say “more direct”) means, are we not both worshipping God, worshipping Christ, and giving the Lord the full glory?
I think Sivaraman’s attempting to use a little guilt by association, only there’s not even so much of an association as there is a loose commonality. Which I think is a double fallacy.
Not that one is surprised.
But again, I can raise the same basic objection. If a Hindu worships Shiva at the feet of a statue of Shiva, what’s the sin? Worshipping at the feet of a statue? Or worshipping Shiva?
In the end, the WHERE at which the worship takes place is not particularly important, nor is it particularly important if a person finds it helps his prayerfulness to focus his thoughts on a particular saint whose life, actions, teachings, and/or death are, for that person, a meaningful and powerful example of God’s grace. If a persons prayer is made stronger by so doing, then that is for God’s greater glory. If a person does not need such aids, then that too is for God’s greater glory. All men are not made equal, as far as their talent for prayer is concerned; there is no “one size fits all” mode of prayer.
No, what is important is WHAT is worshipped. If God and Christ are worshipped, there’s no problem. If a pagan deity — Shiva, to give a Hindu example — is worshipped, there’s a very big problem. To make a fuss about a person worshipping God because that person happens to do so best by focusing his thoughts, for a time, on the example of…say…St. Jerome is to make a mountain out of a grain of sand.
Whom do Catholics worship? Tell me directly!”
The answer back?
Mary, the “Saints”, the Pope…..and occasionally this dude called God.
Horses and water, I suppose. There’s almost no point in going over this tired and worn ground again. I didn’t do so in the debate, and fortunately another Gamespot user — and then a Catholic — had this to add:
Not the old idle idol worshiper thing again!
That should have been put to rest with the other prevarications about Catholics and Buddhists years ago. Buddhists no more worship the statues than we do — the Buddha images are nothing more than symbols of his great qualities, just as the religious statues of the Christians (read Catholics) are symbols of the qualities they represent.
We are not idol worshipers; we are ideal worshipers.
Just so. And while it is entirely true that Christ is the foremost ideal, and Mary the prime example of a Christian, the many saints whom we venerate and ask the intercession of are not idols; they are further examples, witnesses in the truest sense to the glory of God to which they necessarily point us.
But that’s the problem with lies, good reader. It doesn’t matter how many times you tell a liar what the truth actually is; he will almost always prefer to remain caught in his lies, if his heart is hardened. (Sadly, I speak from some experience here.) And I for one am not sure how to un-harden the heart of this particular evangelical.
If you could all pray for his conversion, that would probably be a good start, though.
